Perryn Khoo

Nick Abregu: Hey Google, I need digital marketing advice in Melbourne. Where do I go?

Perryn Khoo: Right here, Perryn Khoo.

Nick Abregu: Okay, ladies and gentlemen. We have an amazing person on the podcast today, Perryn. She is… that’s recording, right?  We’re all good. All right. See, we’re… we know what we’re doing here. Perryn is an amazing person. She… her ability to get up and stand in front of hundreds of people. And just give a lecture on the trends and forecast for Google insights and trends on how to really launch your business in a marketing sense is amazing! She does it without a second thought. She can get up in any way she wants. And just give a talk that blows everyone away. Perryn, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Perryn Khoo: My pleasure. Thank you so much Nick for having me today.

Nick Abregu: And thank you for bringing all these foods. Look, she has brought, what do you say this is called?

Perryn Khoo: Gözleme.

Nick Abregu: Gözleme?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: Oh, yum! Did you try some?  Have you tried this?

Perryn Khoo: Cheese and spinach and mincemeat.

Nick Abregu: Is this the spinach one?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, that’s spinach.

Nick Abregu: What’s that one? I want to try this one.

Perryn Khoo: It’s meat. Meat.

Nick Abregu: Is the meat one better?

Perryn Khoo: Mm-hmm. (Affirmative) So amazing.

Nick Abregu: Is it? With the sauce?

Perryn Khoo: They’re both delicious.

Nick Abregu: Oh my God! And you got this in Newark? Want to give them a shout out?

Perryn Khoo: Yes, Gauze City. The place is called Gauze City. And if you look at my… I tagged you in my Instagram. You got this old like ladies in their Turkish or the head wrap and everything. And they’re like making the dough.

Nick Abregu: Oh, that was it?

Perryn Khoo: It’s made with love. So good.

Nick Abregu: Oh my God! People will listen to me chew it on. They’re gonna be in the car and they’re gonna be listening to me chewing. Isn’t that a thing, like you chew? People do that. Have you seen that?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, it’s called…

Nick Abregu: That’s weird!

Perryn Khoo: What is it called? ASMR.

Nick Abregu: What’s that?

Perryn Khoo: It’s short for like… it’s when people do sound effects and people get really comforted by that.

Nick Abregu: No, what? People get comforted by the sound of someone chewing?

Perryn Khoo: Either chewing, it could be brushing your hair, it could be taps like these.

Nick Abregu: Really?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: Can we try these? Let’s see if we get ban. Ready? Hmm.

[Chewing sound]

Perryn Khoo: Actually, sounds like two people kissing.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, we didn’t. We didn’t get through a little bit. And they’d be like, what the *** is going on with that podcast? Thank you so much for coming on.

Perryn Khoo: No, my pleasure. Thanks.

Nick Abregu: So, do you want to tell people a little bit about what it is that you do and what your ambitions are in life?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, in life. Okay, well basically in the last few years. Maybe we can sum up with three things, one would be digital marketing. I’m a digital marketer. Second thing would be, I’m also a dog sitter.

Nick Abregu: Yes, you are!

Perryn Khoo: That’s a rack store outside of work, outside of office. I woke up with some dogs on a holiday.

Nick Abregu: You have the cutest feed ever. Those little puppies.

Perryn Khoo: I love it!

Nick Abregu: They’re the best!

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, they are, they are. You come home happy. You’ve got to, you know, you wake up happy as well because they’re just greeting you all the time.

Nick Abregu: So, just to give you a little bit of a background. I’ve… I used to take dogs from the pound. And train them up again, so that they would be rehabilitated back into a normal living environment. Because as you know, most of the time, dogs that end up in death row are usually because of the fault of the owners. So, we will take them back. And within a week, these dogs that were vicious and whatever would be so easy to get along with in the household. And then we would rehome them. Like I’d find a home for them to forever home. And you, from everything I’m saying you are the only person I would trust with my dog if I had to go away. Because the thing that you do is exactly what is needed to have a healthy well-balanced dog.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, oh my goodness. You know this rescue dogs? I had one, when he left my house, I balled my eyes out. Like I was so heartbroken because you know, you have to restore them.

Nick Abregu: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Perryn Khoo: And then he has trusted me. And now I had to kind of give him away but, you know, like we learned how to trust someone else. I was just so heartbroken. I was like, oh I’m so sorry. I felt like I was betraying you.

Nick Abregu: It’s the worst. It’s the worst feeling.

Perryn Khoo: Because I don’t know if I’d do that with the rest. I had one. Just one of them was a rescue. And they were, yeah, he was going for, you know, death row, so to speak. And if nobody looked after him, he would have been put down, yeah.

Nick Abregu: I remember one of the dogs that I had was named Chance. And then they named him Chance because they took him out of death row but the reason, he was gonna be euthanized was because he bit the hot water system. So, this dog was a Doberman cross… what are those dogs that have the snouts like that? Like it comes down. It’s like a… almost like a pit dog. It’s like a pit bull dog but it’s not.

Perryn Khoo: Like a Boston?

Nick Abregu: No, no, not. It’s a… I can’t remember the name but it’s more like had that, the long-curved nose and like a massive dog. It’s a breed for fighting, these dogs. And it just has so much energy, right? That they lift it in the backyard without exercising, without giving it some discipline or anything like that. And he went crazy. He went crazy. All this energy he started to bite in the hot water system. And they sent it to be put down. And that was my favorite dog. That was the hardest dog to rehabilitate just because of all the energy it had. But I remember when we did find its forever home this guy came in his car, in his like really nice luxury car. Like a vintage car and the window was like a full window at the back. A straight window and the dog had jumped in the back seat and I remember I was like in tears. And I couldn’t, I just couldn’t handle it because that was mine. I wanted to keep that dog but the people was… they didn’t want dog. And the guy started driving off and the dog just sat there like with, it’s like up straight, just looking straight at me, like what are you doing man? Where are we going? Are we going- and I just started like, I turn around and I just started crying like a little girl. It was so hard. That was so hard to let go.

Perryn Khoo: It is. You’re actually mourning.

Nick Abregu: Yeah.

Perryn Khoo: I was mourning as well. My husband’s like, do you want to keep it and I was like no, I can’t. And I’ve got other dogs coming out, huh.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, it’s tough.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, it was so hard.

Nick Abregu: The relationship you build with an animal is like no other.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. It really was. And, I mean he was going to be put down for the wrong reason as well. And I was like, a perfect pet at home.

Nick Abregu: So sad.

Perryn Khoo: Assertive.

Nick Abregu: So sad. So, what, do you have a business thing? What’s the… or is it just the… do want to talk about this? I mean you don’t have to.

Perryn Khoo: Oh, no, no, no. I’m doing this on the side so it’s very ad hoc but it also ties in with how I do my marketing, digital marketing. So, maybe I might kind of have a segue into how I got into it. Obviously not dogs.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, discuss it. How did you get into marketing in the first place?

Perryn Khoo: Oh, I’ve always loved marketing, so like since growing up my parents were business owners.

Nick Abregu: Yeah.

Perryn Khoo: And I’ve always had this, you know, I wanted to be like the business woman and I wanted to do all these things. But also, at the same time my parents went through a lot. So, we rode the highs of, you know, a really good business, you know, being very successful. And then also the lows, of like what happens when a business is not doing well and how it affects the whole family. So, I went through that as a child.

Nick Abregu: It’s so important to see that.

Perryn Khoo: It is!

Nick Abregu: So, a lot of people start off seeing the lows. Like a business is so hard but when you see success first and then you see the lows, like I think it’s always harder to do it that way because you’re like I’m invincible. That everything I do is right.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. Literally, literally.

Nick Abregu: And you saw that as a kid.

Perryn Khoo: It was, yeah. It was up and down. Up and down. I knew it will work if you keep goes that, like how much work you need to put into it when your in business. But I kind of loved it. It’s kind of like a love and hate relationship. But then also from there I felt like, and this is something I’m still working on, is I’m trying to get over that fear because I feel like I’ve developed a fear of, you know, what happens if I own my own business and you know, do I have to sell my house, you know, like do I have to do all this things which is like, do I have to let go but, and all these are on my head. So, what my solution for that at the moment, I’m working for an agency WME group. And what happens in, is in my role, I manage about a hundred businesses which I can advise people on how to grow their business, do all that stuff. And I feel like it’s a safe zone for me to not kind of, you know, take that risk but I know that one day I have to.

Nick Abregu: That’s so good because you’re seeing the data as to why a business comes in the first place because they need more leads or they need more work or whatever. So, you see why they got to that point in the first place. You are in the ultimate position to be in before you start a business. That is awesome!

Perryn Khoo: Yes. That getting started is like anything, it’s like getting to the gym. You go, okay, I sign up for this. Now, I have to quickly, have to go. So, I’m kind of working through all these things.

Nick Abregu: But you know, what you’re doing is that, so if you take the analogy of the gym. And you’re seeing that, you’re seeing everyone that’s ever gone to a gym. You’re seeing the people that succeeded and the people that failed. And you’re seeing why. You’re seeing why they succeeded and why they failed and that’s what you’re doing before you launch into a business. That is invaluable.

Perryn Khoo: Mm-hmmm (affirmative). Absolutely! I am very privilege to be in the position I am in. I’ve seen a lot of successes with my clients. And obviously you learned a lot as well because I think, you know, to me it’s very important. It’s not just about the success. It’s about what happens to a campaign that has failed. It will teach you as much as, you know a successful campaign or if not more. And these lessons are important not just for me but for the business owner. And you know, for example you might be thinking you’re doing all right all these years but then when you look into the data and the analytics of things, you might realize actually you’re missing out what maybe like 80% of the other part of, you know, of what you could have done then.

Nick Abregu: Let me ask you in a world, because you’re so digitally based, in a world that everything’s changing, do you think that the fundamental executions in business should still remain the same? Like we changed… social media, all this stuff, all these platforms are changing so much. Like for example Tiktok is out now, right? But that’s going to be, I mean like Snapchat for business was, had a little burst it kind of died off. And, then Right? Tiktok I think is on the same way. It’s like really good because there’s so much fun thing in it and it’s just gonna die off and then the next thing.  The fundamental of business is to keep a successful business going. Do you think that there’s still the same like each business should have x, y, and zed to maintain a healthy income or healthy business life?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, it’s not gonna be a straightforward answer, so yes and no. There will be ways that you need to ride on. So, for example like trends, things that will last for a while for example back in the day, you know, if you… when people, you know, we have like the internet wasn’t as prevalent. Everyone was using fax machines. And at that time, you needed a fax machine to, you know, work in your business. But however, with technology when that changes, you have to kind of keep up with the times. And that is kind of obsolete at the moment but then there will always be something new that will support your, a new technology that will empower your business to do more better.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, absolutely.

Perryn Khoo: So yes and no but then however that principle of business as well. And I believe fundamentally we’re dealing with people; we’re not dealing with machines or like tools or anything like that. Fundamentally it has to be, are we, you know, am I serving the community, am I, you know, value adding to the world, am I doing the right things. And these values come from people, in a person. What you believe and what you want to communicate. Not too much to the extent of technology, so kind of yes and no.

Nick Abregu: That’s interesting. They say that, so we’re dealing with people. So, when you focus your business around dealing with people that you have a better chance of succeeding. So, in the sense of automation like people get, people automate way too much, right? So, I know in my business the key of automating people is the hardest thing that we can do but I think the best possible thing. So, if you can automate that love and care for your customers, right? You’ve got it made, right? That’s awesome!

Perryn Khoo: I think there needs to be a balance still because at the end of the day with people we’re quite unpredictable but also very predictable in some sense.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, that’s true. That’s very true.

Perryn Khoo: So, we’re very guided by culture. But also, at the same time people can change their minds like, you know, tomorrow… you know, when something new happens or when something new comes along, you know, they forget the old trend and they move on to the next one. So, in terms of I think be true to what you believe in, to your values is that the in a day whether your time is now or whether that trend is now or whether it’s in the future. You still need that to hold true and to take you along in that journey. So, for example like there are a lot of successful people who make it, you know when they’re a little bit older, past 50 or so. Like, what’s that, the Harry Potter film, what’s her name? Towkan?

Nick Abregu: J.K. Rowling?

Perryn Khoo: Rowland? Oh, oops!

Nick Abregu: Rowling, Rowling.

Perryn Khoo: It be might, she’d view for this.

Nick Abregu: You’re like a… was its Disney’s child, Kelly Rowland? Is that who you’re thinking?

Perryn Khoo:  Was it? I thought, that’s Towkan. No, I will not…

Nick Abregu: Towkan.

Perryn Khoo: Okay back, to let you know she’s an example. She’s a great writer but she’s tried many, many times before she actually broke through to the public, to the general public or to the mass media. But she stayed true to what her writing was like. And sometimes it takes a while before you have a breakthrough. You don’t know if it’s gonna come now or it’s gonna come in the future but you need to stay true to who you are and what you believe.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, I agree but what happens in the case of, you stay true to your writing but it’s not in demand. No one wants it. Like you did all the right things but then you end up no-one ever wanting your stuff. So, like you think you’re faded but really, it’s just that no one needed what you were selling. That’s tough.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, that is tough. And a great example would be technology. So, for example we have VR, right? Those goggles. And it was… people been talking about VR like a long, long, long time but you know, is the mass public ready for a technology like that? Is it, does it come to a point where it becomes mass consumption? So, like for example, back in the day where mobile phones were only for like rich people because it was super expensive. And then it became kind of like, you know…

Nick Abregu: Mainstream.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, mainstream. Exactly. So, with technology as well there will be a time where people need to warm up to that. And there is a lot of technology out there that is already beyond our minds but also beyond what’s functional in our daily lives. And maybe not quite needed but more like a want or like a desired state until that becomes mainstream. So, we also do need to be aware of where people are at. Where’s your product in the lifecycle stage? Yeah, is it like, do we need to introduce, do we need to educate people more about it? Do we need to incorporate that into your lives a little bit more? So, think about these stages when you think about your business like, if people are not wanting your product, you know, is it because of they’re not seeing the functionality of the product. It’s not you know, viable that way or maybe you need to educate the public on how to use it or what it’s for. We can always involve from there and then you have technology to support. Like you say, automation, to support how do we move that forward. Does it make sense?

Nick Abregu: Yeah, absolutely. Where do you stand on the education part? So, if you have say, if you have a product, right? That is too advanced for the mainstream users. Where do you stand? Would you rather be the educator or would you rather leverage someone else’s education?

Perryn Khoo: So, you… as an example like, maybe we take apple as an example. They’re always coming up with new products but they’re also one step ahead of the market. Because the market will get bored of what their current technology, we say, the iPhone 5 and get bored of that. So, they need a 6, they need a… I think 7 and then 10. I think they skipped like a few numbers or something. But they’re always one step ahead of the game? What do they need and they will get, okay, we need to improve the camera functionality. Okay, that’s something that people want. So, we move them from where they are currently now to a desired state. So, they get bored of this easily or like soon, let’s think ahead on what do they want or what do they need. And then tell them this is what you need. And then when they see ads, they’re like, “Oh my God. I need that.”

Nick Abregu: Yeah, so they’re in a very good position because their customers tell them what they want. So, I don’t think they no longer need to be the educator, they just have to be the company that listens to their dying fans. No, not dying fans. Raving fans, not dying fans. So, they’re lucky in that. And I feel like McDonald’s is doing the same thing with… now you can go in and you can create your own order in those boards. So, they’re making that mandatory and they’re taking away the registers. So, now there’s only one register, before they had like five or six, right? So, now they’re just having their customers tell them what they want. So, they can better package they can better create new products and also, they’re leveraging their customer base, right?

Perryn Khoo: Mm-hmm. So, they do have a wide customer base and like what you said that’s an advantage, however what happens in the scenario of, if you invented a new product that no one has ever seen or no one heard about.

Nick Abregu: Then you have to be the educator.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, exactly.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, that’s true. So, we digress quite a lot. So, you went into… you studied in WME and now you have a 150?

Perryn Khoo: About 100-120.

Nick Abregu: Client base?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: And, so take me from there. So, let’s… let me understand how you transition from that or you created your own dog-sitting business.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, okay. Cool. So, I mean I already got a full-time job, so the first thing I did was I was interested in doing a better dog-sitting, right? And how do I monetize that. So, I looked online. The first thing I searched in was what would people want to search for. If they were looking for a service like that. It could be Dog-sitter, Melbourne, as simple as that. So, I type that in, I saw what the search results came up with. And there were… I found a couple of or two three apps that actually connected dog sitters in families or dog owners. And I thought hang on, if I don’t have to, you know, create my own website, you know, that the hard work into and all that. And I registered for that service like it’s an easy bean for me. I’m happy to kind of, you know, paid in a little bit of cut just to start off and get a bit of exposure and all that stuff.

Nick Abregu: Oh, that’s cool!

Perryn Khoo: And then the second thing as well is usually these companies, they have larger budgets, so they know how to advertise. So, with that in terms of looking at my resource, I would want to compete with them and like a, you know, just as a standalone person as opposed to a marketplace model kind of business. So, I went to, I created a profile and with my SEO knowledge and, you know, knowing how to work algorithms. I knew what the system was looking for when people actually are searching for dogs. So, meaning there’s a whole list of pet sitters in there but how do I get myself in the top?

Nick Abregu: To stand out.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. To reposition. Because people don’t really scroll and as with a Google search result. So, I make sure I know how to optimize my listing, be in the top, and voila! My inquiries come through.

Nick Abregu: So, how long after you first signed up the thing to G an inquiry I started to, I think to G inquiry?

Perryn Khoo: Yes, so I started to do a bit of testing here and there. So, just to figure out like…

Nick Abregu: You’re such a marketer.

Perryn Khoo: But that’s the thing we do. And that’s exactly what, you know, anything that has a listing, a priority system on algorithm, so to speak. There’s always, you know, what is algorithm looking for. In anything, it could be social media, it could be anything.

Nick Abregu: Where did you find for that one?

Perryn Khoo: So, I did a few testings and I put in some keywords people that, you know, might possibly search that those things up. Reviews was an important one for them and I always think along in terms of put myself in the shoes of the app developer or that particular app. What do they want? They want people to, they want more pieces…

Nick Abregu: That they can make their platform the best.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. So, they’re trying to… as much as possible to raise the profiles of pet sitters. And reviews will be one way. The second thing is… well that was important to them was response time because if you’re looking for a dog…

Nick Abregu: It needs to be ASAP.

Perryn Khoo: Yes.

Nick Abregu: Wow!

Perryn Khoo: So, they kind of use that as a market indication of like how keen is this pet sitter or dog sitter. And I feel that the other thing would be as well is… I was thinking in terms of, if you’re looking for a dog, what are some of the important criterias you would need. So, for me I worked out my competitive advantage. One of it was I didn’t have any kids at home and I don’t have a current dog or a pet at home. Like no animals.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, it’s good.

Perryn Khoo: So, when people feel like, okay, I’m comfortable because, you know, I don’t have to worry about my dog getting along another dog.

Nick Abregu: You can devote your entire attention to the dog.

Perryn Khoo: Exactly. And that was my other USP. Second thing, I mean I generally already like to do… just take photos and I know how important it is for dog owners to kind of see the dog, make sure they know that they’re doing well, and you know especially to have a good holiday while they’re away. And kind of feel relaxed about it. So, was another one that I put. So, it’s all in my title.

Nick Abregu: That’s cool.

Perryn Khoo: My profile doesn’t see my name or anything. It just says no pets, no kids, just lots of lots of pictures.

Nick Abregu: That’s awesome.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, and when they go see the title, they go, “That’s exactly what I want.” Click through, inquire.

Nick Abregu: Wow. So how long after you did that, did you get your first inquiry?

Perryn Khoo: So, I’ve been doing this for two years. I had usually when you first sign up, when you have a new profile, they put you up there because they want you to see that there’s inquiries coming through. And to kind of help you get started. So, at the start it was alright and then later on you get dropped down. That’s where I had to…

Nick Abregu: To give new people a chance.

Perryn Khoo: Exactly and also to keep the existing people who are doing the right things to, you know, kind of stay up there as well, yeah. So, one of the things I did was I tweaked my profile, I went from position 17 to 5 in a day.

Nick Abregu: What?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: Wow!

Perryn Khoo:  So, just little changes little tweaks like that, they recognize these things.

Nick Abregu: Yeah. Did you do anything that dropped you back down?

Perryn Khoo: Yes. One thing would be if I don’t get or I get a cancellation, or if I make a cancellation then that… to the system they don’t recognize what’s a good cancellation, what makes sense, what doesn’t make sense. Because it’s a system’s like boat. So yeah, cancellations help, you know, get me down but sometimes, you know, we have to make call that.

Nick Abregu: Yeah.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, if we can take on the job or not.

Nick Abregu: Alright, so we’re just talking about fake birthdays. How you get free cake if you announce at a restaurant that it’s your birthday.

Perryn Khoo: And anniversary.

Nick Abregu: And anniversaries.

Perryn Khoo: And if you want to do a fake proposal.

Nick Abregu: Yes. We’re just saying, I want to do a fake proposal because I just proposed to my partner, four weeks ago? What did she say? And she won’t let me do it. Like every time I try and get the ring, she gets like… she gets nervous. But we’re gonna get free something. It’s worth it. I wonder what we get.

Perryn Khoo: Every dinner I get a free something. That’s amazing. If, or maybe free champagne or if a cake.

Nick Abregu: I wonder if saying your birthday is different saying it’s your anniversary. What’d get? You get anniversay. Get a champagne?

Perryn Khoo: Maybe a champagne or…

Nick Abregu: A birthday cake.

Perryn Khoo: Or a dessert. Champagne with dessert and don’t forget every time you go like for honeymoon or every time you traveling, just tell them it’s your anniversary and then you might get a free bottle of champagne as well.

Nick Abregu: Did you guys hear that? Do we need to rewind this and replay that. So…

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, also I used to work in hospitality industry so I know that.

Nick Abregu: Did you?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: What did you work?

Perryn Khoo: It’s called, Arrow On Swanston which is on Swanston Street. And I did the marketing for them. Yeah, so you get to ask like late check out, early check-ins, you know, do all…

Nick Abregu: If you’re on your honeymoon?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: Really?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, or anytime you stay in accommodation. Yeah.

Nick Abregu: I like late check-out. So good. You don’t have to rush. It seems like every time you go to a hotel. The last day is like you have to leave the earliest.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. So, just request, there’s no harm. And if you do that early enough, they can shuffle the rooms around so you can have a late check-out.

Nick Abregu: Really?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, you want to sleep in, right?

Nick Abregu: Inside information, yeah? Is this illegal? I don’t know what you’re…

Perryn Khoo: No, no. You can always ask. There’s no harm.

Nick Abregu: I’m gonna have to block your face and will change your voice like, wait hold on. So, tell us again.

Perryn Khoo: Okay, ask for late check-in or early check-out.

Nick Abregu: Hold on, hold on. Wait, you’ve got to do it again.

Perryn Khoo: Ask for early check-in or late check-out.

Nick Abregu: Inside information from Perryn. We exposed the secrets. Hold on, I’ll just…

Perryn Khoo: Your laugh is different.

Nick Abregu: Alright, let’s click that off and we’re back! So, for those that don’t… oh wait, they’re watching and they’ll get it too.

Perryn Khoo: Oh, good.

Nick Abregu: Awesome. All right, so back to marketing stuff. You’ve been doing a lot of speaking, lately. What got you into that?

Perryn Khoo: As of last year, actually I have to thank Johann from Business Authorities. And this is like an amazing community that he started for business owners. Amazing! Nick, you know that.

Nick Abregu: Yes, absolutely.

Perryn Khoo: And he gave me the pleasure of speaking in one of his events. It was a mastermind about digital marketing. And that was my first exposure in a public setting like that.

Nick Abregu: That was your first one?

Perryn Khoo: It was absolutely my first one.

Nick Abregu: Wow, you killed it!

Perryn Khoo: I never thought of doing anything like that.

Nick Abregu: Wow!

Perryn Khoo: Never would have imagine myself like up there, doing you know. I’m just… I just do what I do every day, you know. But then I realized, actually you know what? There is something that I have that I need to share with the world as well. Like if I have knowledge, and that’s exactly what I’m doing right now. I have knowledge in terms of, how do we scale your business? How do I help you in terms of business owners? Then, why not share it? It’s information. You can implement if you can grow. Then that’s amazing! Like if I can provide that value, I love that. He was so kind just to have me on board. What was it about? It was about to…

Nick Abregu: As a, insights?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: How to figure out your marketing. How to figure out the keywords and hone in on your follow ups as well.

Perryn Khoo: And tools as well.

Nick Abregu: And tools, yeah.

Perryn Khoo: For business owners there’s so many free tools out there that you can use. And if you can utilize and leverage on these things, you’d be like, why not? Definitely. So, that was… from then on, I had quite a few more invites into other events as well in different communities which I have been very, very privileged to be a part of.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, that’s awesome.

Perryn Khoo: Now, I’m here.

Nick Abregu: Now you’re here. The biggest event of all.

Perryn Khoo: Most sought event.

Nick Abregu: We have 20 million listeners.

Perryn Khoo: Absolutely.

Nick Abregu: Why are you laughing? We have 20 million.

Perryn Khoo: I thought it was 40.

Nick Abregu: Forty? Oh, we dropped down from last week, our last guest. He just ruined it.

Perryn Khoo: Who was the last guest?

Nick Abregu: Tony Sambell. No, yeah, that’s awesome. So, speaking is really a great way to put your name out there and if you’re speaking on behalf of a business, it really amplifies the business name. It’s such a good way to network into that… into the audience.

Perryn Khoo: I think for me, I kind of fell into it, was it, like manufacturing which is amazing because I wanted to keep it to, what do I have to, what message do I have to share with the world and that was the platform. So, you know, I don’t… like some of the events I don’t get paid or anything like that. I’m just happy to prepare and share information with the world. So, that was, you know, kind of like my angle in where I came from. And I don’t think that would change.

Nick Abregu: It was really… so the information you give, so if anyone ever sees Perryn on a speaking panel, go to it because you always give valuable information. So, it’s not like this fluffy b*** that the other people give, right?  Like that everyone knows but you give genuine information. Even… I’ve been marketing for about 10 or 11 years and even I was like, oh s***. I didn’t know that. That was awesome.

Perryn Khoo: There’s so many things we don’t know. There’s so many things I don’t know as well. So, you know, if we can all share collectively. That’s what the internet is, it’s a collection of information and the world becomes a richer place. We’ve got information on our fingertips which is amazing!

Nick Abregu: What’s… if you were to say you are an expert in something, what are you the expert in?

Perryn Khoo: I think strategy in digital marketing.

Nick Abregu: Nice.

Perryn Khoo: So, I work with so many business owners day in and day out. I understand and also, you know, excuse me, I shared a bit of my background before with my parents and stuff. I understand how it’s like and the struggles. And I’ve seen, you know, other people share with me. So that’s a valuable information. So, sometimes I can apply that on a different perspective kind of… maybe kind of a consultancy a little bit.

Nick Abregu: Kind of like what? Sorry.

Perryn Khoo: Consultancy?

Nick Abregu: Oh, yes.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, like if you need a direction to somewhere and for me to go into the business. And a lot of times I do that with clients that I take on board. I have to understand the business. I go into there. Understand their goals. What you have. What are your capabilities. What your resources are, before I can actually devise the strategy to move forward with. So, we need to know what we have right now and with a one goal.

Nick Abregu: That’s so important. I’m glad that you mentioned that because there are so many business owners that don’t know what they don’t know. So, when someone like you know goes into the business and says, let me look at everything that you do, right? And let me devise that plan because you’re the expert ultimately.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, business owners know their business. I don’t know your business. I know that industry but that’s where we can cross reference out information and it’s kind of, like a tag team. You tell me about your business, I’ll tell you what’s going on. Let’s share and let’s look at what’s the best way for it.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, so we’ve also had the best results by doing that. So, anytime we can do that, we always get the best result because you get to understand… you don’t need to understand 100% of their business but I think 25% understanding the crucial points is enough to put together the business plan or the marketing plan whatever it is that you are doing.

Perryn Khoo: Mm-hmm. And it’s always a two-way thing. It can’t be okay, you know, here’s my business like off you go, you know, get me some results kind of thing.

Nick Abregu: Yeah.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. Because you know, what if it, you know, there’re little quirks and little things about your business that is unique to other people. You can’t quite do a cookie-cutter to a certain extent.

Nick Abregu: Yeah.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, so that’s where I need inputs from the business owner as well and tell me, you know, is this working or does this makes sense? Because sometimes it doesn’t.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, yeah.

Perryn Khoo: It’s a way to revise things but I don’t have… if I can share a little bit about some trends for…

Nick Abregu: Yes! Absolutely.

Perryn Khoo: Because we touched a little bit about this and you mentioned about Google Home and things along those lines. And this is something that I’ve been thinking about especially for this year and end of last year. I was thinking about 2020, you know, next decade kind of thing. Everyone’s like quite excited for it. And something I thought was, you know, I don’t know if you remember and you’ve probably, probably remembered back in the day when you had the old internet dial-up.

Nick Abregu: Yes.

Perryn Khoo: Do you remember how it sounds?

Nick Abregu: Yeah, [making sound].

[Laughter]

Perryn Khoo: Exactly, it’s horrible. But it’s like stucked in your mind, yeah. But…

Nick Abregu: It’s a trauma.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, but think about it during those times when you had to wait that long and listen to that horrible sound but you need the internet. And at that stage, would people or would you, you know, think of asking Google anything? Back on the date and year or anything like that.

Nick Abregu: Yeah.

Perryn Khoo: And what were some of the reasons why?

Nick Abregu: I think because it wasn’t as easy to ask a question. And then the information you always had to like scan through like you’d end up on page 10 and still not finding what you wanted.

Perryn Khoo: Absolitely. And so, there were couple of things, I thought about it now and I was like, what changes user behavior? Because why are we so, you know, dependent on Google now. And you know, every time you don’t know anything, you straight away, you’re just like almost instinctively like you just Google it. You know, but back in the day, why didn’t we just Google that? The internet was alive back then. There was still a lot of information but why didn’t we just kind of do it?

Nick Abregu: Because it wasn’t instant.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. Exactly. It wasn’t instant and it wasn’t convenient as well. Absolutely. So, what made things a bit more instant?

Nick Abregu: A phone? Definitely the mobile? Internet on your mobile.

Perryn Khoo: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nick Abregu: And definitely those Google Home things are gonna… are already making it convenient.

Perryn Khoo: Absolutely. So, things are moving. So, you can see the trends back in the day, it has changed consumer behavior. Back in the day you use the internet for different things like to send emails basically. And you wait the dial-up and then send an email. Now when… with technology, we’ve got the phones and also the speed of the internet so quicker. We don’t have to wait for that annoying sound to start up before we can actually ask a question. And we get an instant response. So, the clue to this would be technology has changed and that has drive consumer behavior. So, where are we going? This is the day and age of instant information right now on their phones. What will become more convenient in the future? In terms of technology and how we search for information. The next step, if you think about… you mentioned something about Google Home that would be using your voice. So, it’s convenient as it is now to be typing and be like, hey Google, you know, what’s the weather like today? But isn’t it would be more convenient if we can actually just verbally ask Google instead of…

Nick Abregu: Definitely.

Perryn Khoo: Typing that in. Yeah. So, but ask again, you know, ask yourself again like, why aren’t people using voice search as much as we thought we would have?

Nick Abregu: Yeah, well I mean, you know, I think in Australia it’s not as much. Like in America I know it’s massive already. Like when they had that Google Home thing. But I think in Australia not just it but we always lay behind in technology I think but sometimes we like so much that we skip in a certain technology and just go straight into the next one.

Perryn Khoo: Mm-hmm. Let’s say for yourself personally, instead of asking Google you know what or instead of typing in, what is stopping you from asking Google what is the weather like today?

Nick Abregu: Well for me, because it’s not so convenient. Because sometimes when I ask, it doesn’t pick up my voice. That’s really annoying. Sometimes I’m driving with my fiancé in the car and I’m like, “Hey Google.” And it doesn’t, “Hey Google. Hey Google!”

Perryn Khoo: Wake up already!

Nick Abregu: And then she’s like, “Let me just type it in.” I’m like, “No, no, no. Hey Google!” I get defeated with a thing.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, yeah. So, it’s exactly the same thing back in the day when we had the dial-up, you’re like, “I can’t!” Like it’s just too hard. I can’t wait for it. It’s not giving me the right information. And sometimes it’s not listening to me right, properly. But then again what happens if technology advances and Google got you straight away. And even if you change your voice, she might still understand you or change your accent and she might still understand you.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, that’ll be awesome.

Perryn Khoo: That’ll be awesome. But that’s again paid on where technology is.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, is that where you think it’s going in Google voice for the next decade?

Perryn Khoo: Definitely because technology is already here. It needs to be released to the market. And it will always be you know expanding and growing at that rate. And when we are empowered with the right technology, consumer behavior will follow suit.

Nick Abregu: Yeah.

Perryn Khoo: Does that makes sense?

Nick Abregu: Absolutely. And I feel like with virtual reality, I feel like that has… that was too soon it’s too soon because we don’t have the integrations yet that we can easily use it.

Perryn Khoo: Absolutely.

Nick Abregu: But voice, it’s easily integrated.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, absolutely. In terms of functionality like we don’t typically need VR, it’s just like a cool thing but like research, you know, you use it all the time. You need it. It’s already ingrained in your life but if you make it more convenient and better, then everyone’s going to go for that. And you’ve only got one option, it’s just better. So, you’ll just go for better. But when the technology comes to support it then I reckon that behavior was slowly changed to, you know. And then you know, our kids will probably laugh at us, you know, what is this typing? They probably don’t even know how you use a keyboard.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, probably.

Perryn Khoo: It’s going to become so inconvenient.

Nick Abregu: Wow, that’s true. They won’t even know how to use the keyboard. Wow.

Perryn Khoo: Well, yeah, everything will be Google voice and just talking.

Nick Abregu: And that’s so cool.

Perryn Khoo: It’s crazy. It’s crazy. And in… and think about even like the last 10 years and last 20 years, so much has changed, in a decade. So, I think the next decade will be very exciting.

Nick Abregu: And scary.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, at the same time. There’s a lot of unknowns but…

Nick Abregu: I just can’t feel on what’s coming next. Like I feel like we’ve peaked but there’s no way we’ve peaked.

Perryn Khoo: There’s always…

Nick Abregu: Humans mind was scary.

Perryn Khoo: And crazy. And crazy.

Nick Abregu: We’re gonna ruin and make the Earth better at the same time.

Perryn Khoo: Oh, no. That is so scary. The Earth dying at the same time, yeah.

Nick Abregu: Just on a, if I can digress just a little bit, I saw on the Internet a pink Manta ray.

Perryn Khoo: Is that a real thing?

Nick Abregu: It’s more rare than an albino Manta ray.

Perryn Khoo: Really? Why is it pink?

Nick Abregu: I don’t know. I just like and go, “Wow.”

Perryn Khoo: Sunburn.

Nick Abregu: It’s the albino that’s been sunburn. That’s funny. It’s half-cook.

Perryn Khoo: Half cook. That is cool.

Nick Abregu: I just thought I’d say that but the Internet is what I’m saying it’s like it shows you. Like you don’t have to travel around the world to see stuff anymore.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: Just in your… at home. On the toilet. You’re just like you get the most that you just did things.

Perryn Khoo: But imagine VR, holidays on VR. I think that could be a thing as well.

Nick Abregu: Yeah! I think it might have some pretty good benefits though. Like if you work say you know, you’ve taken a holiday once every five years. Like doing that stuff would be cool.

Perryn Khoo: But also, at the same time if you did that… I mean the worst degrading in a really quick rate as well. So, you know maybe in the future half of the Amazon be gone or things like that, that we can’t recover ever. But if we have technology to capture that now, we can always go back in the day where it was like beautiful. Like kind of and Eden kind of setting. And we can explore there again and going for like holidays but to the past. Is it weird?

Nick Abregu: Yeah. That’s cool. I also I think with VR, it’s going to take society into a bad place because like people already forgotten how to socialize. You know, because it’s so… you want a date? You go in Tinder, you get a date. You know, like people have forgotten the art of socialization especially kids.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Nick Abregu: Like how many people do you know that when maybe you introduce yourself, like when you’re in an uncomfortable situation, you go straight in your phone. Like instead of facing the situation. Like so many people do that.

Perryn Khoo: Actually, all the time. We’re on our phone all the time. Not even uncomfortable, even you’re comfortable you’re like multi-tasking, talking and texting at the same time.

Nick Abregu: People don’t even work that hard at work. Like people work harder on their social media than they do at their work. That’s a scary place to think about, right?

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, this is why… that’s why I believe as well. If looking into the future, I believe that there will be more and more, the industry for like health is one big thing because health is obviously degrading as we eat more processed food. And then we’re trying to like undo that. The second thing would be mental health is also be thing. More and more people are getting more depressed with you know isolation and loneliness. And you know, when we’re supposed to be, you know, in terms of social media and everything, we should be at a peak. But then also the same time for kids like you said, would be needing a lot more counseling in terms of how do we relate to each other. So, in future I hope that, you know, the education system have to incorporate sessions or classes to talk about how do we, you know, relate with humans. How do we you know kind of work on EQ type of some things because I think that’s very important. But it seems these three sample it would be doing really well.

Nick Abregu: So, I read at start that’s said… went through like 40, 45 is the age where your finance peaks like you’re at earning the most amount of money in life. Sixty-five is the age where you are most content with life. So, I think that’s gonna change dramatically because as our generation gets older, we’re so used to comparing ourselves on the Internet. So, 65, it may never ever come. That contentment with life may never ever come. That’s sad. Like that was taken from the generation that is 65 now or like for the last 20 years, right? Before all the internet stuff. That’s scary.

Perryn Khoo: It is scary.

Nick Abregu: It’s scary to think that we may never be content with life.

Perryn Khoo: I think it would be, that would be extremes in… so you know, in terms financial status there’s always an extreme. There’s really poor and really rich. And now everyone’s kind of like, you know, midlle income, you’re right, yeah? But in terms of like mental health, I think there will always be that again people are getting like really poor like mentally. Yeah, and also at the same time if you can use the right tools properly you can actually be really enriched by these tools. And because there’s a lot more awareness now of like, you know, the state of your mental health. And you know, contentment, things like joy and peace. These intangibles will become even more of focus.

Nick Abregu: What do you do to keep yourself on track? With the mental health?

Perryn Khoo: So, this year I’ve got a couple of goals. One would be to have a massage every month, at least. The second thing is I like to go to a dance class.

Nick Abregu: She’s down with that. She’s like, we spoke about that yesterday, yeah let’s budget that in for one a week.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah. One on one week.

Alia Steglinski: Now everybody knows.

Perryn Khoo: You’d do for me, I’d do for you.

Nick Abregu: We bought this tool that like, it’s like a drill. Like that and unto…

Perryn Khoo: Does it work?

Nick Abregu: It’s so good. It doesn’t work? You don’t think so?

Alia Steglinski: I like relax, you know.

Perryn Khoo: She likes human hands.

Nick Abregu: I bought it so I can make my job easier. And she’s like, I don’t like that.

Perryn Khoo: She said I still want personal. It’s engine.

Nick Abregu: Because I just put it like on my chest. I just alter my voice. That’s what it’s used for now. So, you goes to massage once a month?

Perryn Khoo: Yes, a minimum. And also, I want to do more dance classes. So, like I do a bit of like hiphop, street, that kind of thing.

Nick Abregu: Do you wanna give us… do you wanna show us?

Perryn Khoo: I did a class last night.

Nick Abregu: Wait, I saw a video actually. With a group.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, yes. So, there’s classes, yeah. Like a group class, yeah.

Nick Abregu: That’s awesome.

Perryn Khoo: So, I want to do a bit more of that as well because I enjoy it, it’s fun. And I highly recommend.

Nick Abregu: That’s awesome. Just get all physical and sweat it out.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah.

Nick Abregu: Sweat out the bad stuff.

Perryn Khoo: So, I mean do what you love, do what you enjoy.

Nick Abregu: Are you a meditation person?

Perryn Khoo: I need to get into it more. I find it really hard to quiet down myself very extroverted person, so I has very high energy outside and this is something that I need to like, incorporate. And I’ve been pushing it off for a long time.

Nick Abregu: You know what’s therapeutic is doing this stuff. Podcasting? Just talking like just talking. You talk out your problems, you talk out whatever. It’s just so therapeutic. It’s like you’re blasting it out to the world and then you hear yourself. You hear the things that you’re saying and you’re like hold on, that doesn’t make sense. Let me just adjust this in my life to make this better. Like to me this is so therapeutic.

Perryn Khoo: I enjoy this. This is fun.

Nick Abregu: Sometimes just sitting here, you know, in the room by yourself and just start talking. You’ll be amazed at what comes out of your mouth. Like the things you just like you just never knew with it. So, if anyone’s out there you want to start podcasting, hit us up up because we’ll take care of you.

Perryn Khoo: That’s a great idea. I mean this is such a lovely set-up by the way Nick.

Nick Abregu: Do you feel like you are in a cozy environment?

Perryn Khoo: Oh, definitely! Cozy is definitely the word. I love it.

Nick Abregu: The conversation is different when you’re in a cozy environment.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, I think because you’re comfortable. So, you can be comfortable sharing, opening up. And you’re in that space of the environment that does influence.

Nick Abregu: So good.

Perryn Khoo: Good work! And you’re opening four more studios?

Nick Abregu: Four more, yeah. And that’s the start. That’s the start of it.

Perryn Khoo: All for podcasting?

Nick Abregu: With all profession-… yeah, for podcasting. Podcast dedicated podcasting station.

Perryn Khoo: Amazing.

Nick Abregu: Around Melbourne.

Perryn Khoo: Amazing. And you’ve got your location slotted or.

Nick Abregu: We’re going to actually look at we’re going to look at some after this. Some more, so, yeah, see if we’d have a go.

Perryn Khoo: This is absolutely fun so I highly recommend.

Nick Abregu: Right?

Perryn Khoo: Being in a podcast with you, definitely fun. But if you wanted to start your own, I think it’s a great idea because remember we’re talking about voice search and this is content for voice.

Nick Abregu: Exactly. And because we video when you come in here for one hour or whatever time and then you just… we just blast it up into 40 different pieces of content. It’s like one a month is more than enough. And then you start taking control of the algorithms, you know, so then they start posting you more to more relevant people and then you just start dominating.

Perryn Khoo: Absolutely. Absolutely but start now because, you know, if you started early in the industry so for example, SEO back in the day, it’s really easy to rank because you don’t have a lot of competitors.

Nick Abregu: If you have five gigs and you’re done.

Perryn Khoo: But also, because you’re already developed all this content, you’ve already developed your whole website to be so ready for Google. You’re not going to drop even if the competition comes along. You have to try a lot harder to kind of beat you to it. You have to double up with a work to beat you to it. So, if you start early with the podcasting, you know, the videos and all that stuff. Then I think you’re ahead of the game and it’s a long game, so play it for the long run.

Nick Abregu: And any kind of content will always be there. Like we’re still reading blogs from… that were created like 10 years ago. You’re still reading it because it’s relevant. And now Google has the ability to only grab that snippet of that you need when you’re searching for it. So, even and I noticed that on YouTube videos as well. Like if you type in something and the video comes up it says suggested here and it gives a little bar and says you only need to watch this part of this video. That is insane!

Perryn Khoo: It is crazy.

Nick Abregu: The spiders that crawl in the videos and stuff now or everything that gets crawled is so intelligent.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, and that just gone to get better.

Nick Abregu: Yeah. So, start creating your content.

Perryn Khoo: Absolutely. Completely agree. You’re on the right track.

Nick Abregu: Perryn, I want to thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for bringing the food. Thank you for letting us into your life.

Perryn Khoo: My pleasure. Thank you, Nick, for having me.

Nick Abregu: It’s been absolutely awesome.

Perryn Khoo: It’s been so fun. I love this.

Nick Abregu: It’s always fun hanging out with you.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, absolutely lot of fun.

Nick Abregu: And if anyone wants to get in touch with you where can they do that?

Perryn Khoo: So, they can do that on LinkedIn or I don’t know how to give out my business card.

Nick Abregu: Or just call it on 0, 4…

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, I was like, how do I give out my business card?

Nick Abregu: We’ll put a link to your LinkedIn.

Perryn Khoo: Yeah, okay.

Nick Abregu: Yep. And for your dog business, if anyone has a dog out there.

Perryn Khoo: Just reach out to me.

Nick Abregu: Yeah, okay. Cool. And she will take good care of your pet.

Perryn Khoo: Yes.

Nick Abregu: Just dogs?

Perryn Khoo: I do hardly have like cats once a year because people don’t really…

Nick Abregu: But if you go why don’t you just leave your cat outside.

Perryn Khoo: Exactly.

Nick Abregu: It will feed for itself.

Perryn Khoo: That’s why I don’t get too many cat inquiries.

Nick Abregu: Our neighbor came to our house the other day to see if the cat was there. Because the cat seems… like my partner’s been feeding the cat so like the cat comes over and love it because she gives it peanut butter also. Peanut butter and bread. I know. The worst.

Perryn Khoo: Wow.

Nick Abregu: And the cat comes over, the lady comes and says, “Hey, have you got my cat by any chance?” The cat just, by any chance jumps the fence and just runs. And then the lady came to get it. She has the cat, what was the cat doing? Like she’s just trying to get away. Any chance it gets, it just runs out of the house.

Perryn Khoo: So, my friend’s cat was so fat and they’d just been limiting it like no more food. They reckon she’s been cheating on them with another family.

Nick Abregu: Oh, no!

Perryn Khoo: For sure. She’s been cheating with another family.

Nick Abregu: If I was a cat, I’d be that. I’d runaway.

Perryn Khoo: Oh, yeah, 100%!

Nick Abregu: Right? What would you say you’d do?

Perryn Khoo: Hundred percent.

Nick Abregu: My friend had to put a bell on the cat because the cat would go and just like just murder all the birds in the trees. That’s so bad! But the bell did nothing they’re just such, it’s just such good predators. You can’t domesticate a cat. It’ll always try and stuff you up. Perryn, on that note, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure.

Perryn Khoo: Thank you Nick.

Nick Abregu: Thank you everyone for listening.

Perryn Khoo: Awesome.